EVERY GARDENER has their obsessions—or possibly a nicer strategy to say that is vulnerable to be to name it their “signature crops,” those that assist outline their yard. I confess to a excessive subject with gold-leaved factors. And supreme time I checked my pal Ken Druse had diversified crops with variegated leaves of every sort of daring patterns and hues that catch your eye in his New Jersey yard.
Proper now’s matter is how these vibrant leaves really do important jobs in our landscapes earlier merely wanting fairly.
Widespread listeners all know Ken Druse as an outdated pal of mine, and the creator of 20 yard books, together with “The Scentual Yard” and “The New Shade Yard,” and an earlier e e-book often called “The Collector’s Yard” that figures into our topic correct this second. Ken could be my co-creator of the Digital Yard Membership on-line sequence of lessons that’s marking its two-year anniversary this fall.
be a part of us all through the digital yard membership beginning 9/14/2023
OkayEN DRUSE and I are internet web internet hosting one totally different semester of our in sort Digital Yard Membership beginning September 26, with 4 dwell durations each completely totally different week through October 26, 2023. Be taught additional concerning the membership, and what we’ll be defending this upcoming semester, from ecological fall cleanup, to uncommon bulbs (together with natives, and ones for forcing indoors), to creating prepared for winter sowing of perennials and far, way more.
Be taught alongside as you’re taking heed to the Sept. 4, 2023 mannequin of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant beneath. You’ll be able to subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify or Stitcher (and browse my archive of podcasts correct proper right here).
Above, Hakonechloa macra ‘All Gold’ in fall, turned from wise chartreuse gold to butterscotch; beneath, Cornus sericea ‘Silver and Gold’ variegated twig dogwood.
utilizing gold and variegated crops, with ken druse
Margaret Roach: Hey Ken, are you prepared to debate a couple of of our obsessions?
Ken Druse: A number of. Correctly, I knew now we have now been going to debate them. So I went all through the yard merely making an easy pointers…of 30 crops.
Margaret: Oops!
Ken: Thirty gold and variegated crops.
Margaret: Yeah.
Ken: O.Okay., I believed I wasn’t going to buy anymore. It’s over. Nonetheless as soon as I see one factor bizarre, fully completely totally different, humorous shapes, zigzag leaves, gold, or a variegation I’ve under no circumstances seen prior to, or a pet or a kitten…
Margaret: Correctly, and as well as you don’t plant the puppies, you undertake them and love them.
Ken: That’s correct. Correctly, sure. I like all of them.
Margaret: Sure.
Ken: Horrible.
Margaret: Yeah. We not too approach again did a webinar collectively, I don’t know, a month or so before now, I actually really feel it was often called “Meet Your Subsequent Favourite Plant…and Suggestions on learn to Use It.” And positively considered one of many points—we sort of went through a bunch of assorted type of thematically grouped varieties of crops—and definitely considered one of many points was, I actually really feel we often called it “Delicate the Approach with Gold Foliage.” And we lined the gold-leaved crops and the roles they serve for us.
And since then, you and I’ve sort of been speaking about this topic backwards and forwards after we chat steadily and, “Oh, what about this one, what about that one?” However in your e e-book, “The Collector’s Yard,” [affiliate link] you actually went all through the nation and as well as you met tons of oldsters which have… correctly, as quickly as further, I maintain utilizing the phrase obsession, which sounds antagonistic [laughter], and I don’t point out it to be antagonistic, appropriate?
Ken: Yeah. Correctly, I’m attempting to consider a particular phrase [laughter].
Margaret: In order that was that vacant spot, was that we couldn’t ponder one totally different phrase. No ardour, true, appropriate? However gathering, in a approach, it’s partly that, appropriate?
Ken: Correctly, it’s harmful. And I be mindful 30 years before now, when folks have been telling you simple methods to design your yard, they frequently mentioned collector’s gardens are unimaginable, they fail. And what they point out is a hodgepodge of numerous disparate factors with no sense of order or simply blatant accumulation of surprising factors. However the collectors that I discovered doing that e e-book, anyone had 20 varieties of lavender or one issue like that, so that they specialised. Presumably “specialists” would’ve been barely bit elevated. However I assume I take into consideration any plant that I see [laughter].
Margaret: Oh, that’s an attention-grabbing filter [laughter]. So the difficulty that’s in frequent about, and we each have… I’ve far more gold crops I actually really feel, than you do, nonetheless we each love gold-leaved factors, and we’ll concentrate on these. You most likely have far more variegated factors than I do, and I’ve a couple of key ones.
However what do these two varieties of bright-colored leaves, whether or not or not or not it’s on a shrub or a tree or a perennial groundcover, regardless of it’s, have in frequent—and that’s, like I mentioned, what we talked about, and we often called it “Delicate the Approach” after we did it in our webinar, is that they catch the attention, appropriate? They’re “consideration, consideration” exclamation parts. Not columnar like your bodily exclamation parts in your lovely yard, nonetheless these are one totally different type of exclamation, I actually really feel, aren’t they?
Ken: Yeah. And I used to be eager about how normally I’ll plant one issue to misdirect the view, to seize consideration away from one issue like web site company or the neighbor eyesore, one issue like that. And I’ve fairly a couple of factors that terminate a view on the top of a path. So it really carries you down the trail, so that draws your consideration. And there’s numerous factors that I address as throughout the event that they have been merely crops [laughter].
Margaret: Completely. Yeah.
Ken: After we began the yard correct proper right here, we made a nursery mattress, and we made little nurseries all through the yard so we may plant factors that we hadn’t deliberate an house for, and simply have them develop a bit. And a form of, we often called the cloud mattress. Really, we had two. One had variegated crops and gold crops, so the variegation was yellow or gold on inexperienced, and the opposite one was white on inexperienced, which we often called the cloud mattress, this little nursery. And we merely saved plopping stuff in that was variegated. And it grew to grow to be so lovely that it grew to grow to be an home of the yard that we nonetheless have correct this second.
So it was variegated crops, nonetheless it was furthermore factors with white flowers. It sort of all goes collectively. I would like I deliberate additional, it’s rooster and egg in quite a lot of circumstances. Often I’ll get one issue variegated and similar to the cloud mattress, the yard will get planted spherical it. It turns into the very very very first thing, the impetus for a planting home.
Margaret: Right. A extremely very very long time before now, oh gosh, 20 years before now, I take into accounts, associates from Seattle, and I’ve spoken about them prior to, Glenn Withey and Charles Value, who’re yard designers, they came visiting. And now we have now been speaking about my making additional extended views, and establishing additional constructing all through the yard, and serving to change the attention spherical. They typically gave me type of this… and I’m not going to do justice to their knowledge, nonetheless they talked about, “O.Okay., so everybody is aware of that you will need to profit from this axial view from correct proper right here,” from the patio or from a key spot inside your personal house far more necessary, on account of fairly a couple of circumstances of the 12 months we’re not frequently out all through the yard wanting on the yard. A substantial amount of circumstances we’re inside the home, fairly a couple of circumstances of day and circumstances of 12 months, wanting.
So these key axial views, and akin to you mentioned, on the top of it, you would possibly resolve an infinite variegated challenge, or for that matter, it could most likely be correct now of 12 months, it could most likely be a extraordinarily large white-flowering hydrangea, like a Hydrangea paniculata. I’ve some actually huge outdated ones, they usually additionally scream all by way of the yard fairly a distance away correct now of 12 months. However the variegated foliage or the gold foliage on the top of that axis.
However what they mentioned to me was, O.Okay., that’s good, nonetheless alongside one of many easiest methods, on the underside diploma and the intermediate diploma left and proper of that path, that roadway to that view, let’s give it some assist to tug the attention additional, additional, additional.
And so not likely flanking the entire seen pathway out to the screaming plant, nonetheless correct proper right here and there alongside one of many easiest methods, there have been completely totally different hints of that coloration. And that principally helped lots. And that’s one issue that I take into accounts lots furthermore as quickly as I place my seasonal pots. I’ve fairly a couple of huge pots. I’ve two huge pots which have, after which as quickly as I say huge, two and a half toes all by way of, or additional, like whiskey barrel-ish measurement, nonetheless not constructed from picket, which have variegated, purple twig dogwoods in them. And as quickly as I’m pondering of the place to put these, I am going to use that to assist knowledge you to a good bigger variegated view someplace all through the gap, I am going to place them alongside one of many easiest methods sort of challenge. So yeah.
Ken: Yeah. I’ve Heuchera villosa ‘Citronelle,’ which is a Heuchera with lime-colored foliage that doesn’t die-
Margaret: That’s an unbelievable one [above, in foreground].
Ken: On account of some Heuchera merely type of croak. However this one, and I’ve used it an similar to you’re saying. And as you’re saying that there’s an home that I made the trail get narrower and narrower because of it goes away. So it actually seems extended and deep when it hits that variegated plant that isn’t gigantic, and makes you assume it’s larger and additional. And there’s fairly a couple of what folks title rooms correct proper right here, and I don’t know if we plan that precisely, nonetheless we have now areas that we by means of the years have type of encased or closed. And if you stroll through the yard, there’s all these sequence of surprises. And we’ve used variegated crops lots for that. Often to get your consideration prior to you get to the following place, to make the following challenge additional thrilling and exquisite.
Margaret: Right. John Gwynne and Mikel Folcarelli, two good gardeners up in Rhode Island in Little Compton, you’re reminding me, they’ve a gardener of rooms, and truly sort of partitions of greenery that enclose the rooms—additional formal. And there’s one I actually really feel you come into and as well as you don’t understand it’s going to be this screaming gold room, since you’ve come out of 1 totally different home and there’s these partitions of inexperienced, these hedges. After which quickly you come to the entryway and it’s like, it’s merely gleaming on this place on account of they’ve put all these gold and golden-green factors in there. And it’s akin to you’ve come out of a darker spot correct proper right into a lighter spot accentuated by all this goldness. So it could be super-high drama.
What are fairly a couple of people who you simply merely depend on? I merely talked about that I actually love the twig dogwoods, and I’ve each the variegated ones, like ‘Ivory Halo’ is an efficient one, a purple twig dogwood. And that stays additional compact and extra rounded, type of mounded in sort. It’s not fairly as large as fairly a couple of the others. And I’ve ‘Silver and Gold,’ Cornus sericea “Silver and Gold’ twig dogwood, with gold twigs, and inexperienced and white leaves. And that’s barely bit larger. And I even have one which has purple twigs and gold leaves, which is ‘Sunshine,’ Cornus sericea ‘Sunshine.’ So I’ve used these. Plus, you then get the bonus of winter purple twigs to info your eye to a spot. However at any value, I don’t know, what have been fairly a couple of the crops that you just simply merely uncover are serving these options in your yard?
Ken: [Laughter.] Of the 30?
Margaret: Not the 30, fairly a couple of the large payoff moments, I point out. The one’s which can be… Like I do know after we did the webinar not too approach again, you’ve got been speaking about that lovely ‘Celestial Shadow’ Korean hybrid dogwood [detail in flower at Ken’s, above].
Ken: That’s one. There are bushes like Robinia pseudoacacia ‘Frisia,’ which has gold leaves, and it retains the gold through the season. That’s a tree. And the humorous challenge about… it’s not humorous actually, nonetheless if you look out, that grabs your eye, and it’s type of like springtime, on account of that colour is the colour of when the leaves first come obtainable available on the market are fairly a couple of chartreuse coloured leaves on bushes. However this one doesn’t lose that colour. So it’s very refreshing.
Margaret: Right. I’ve that ‘Tiger Eyes’ sumac [below].
Ken: Oh my gosh, which I’ve killed thrice.
Margaret: Cutleaf staghorn sumac ‘Tiger Eyes,’ which is gold, very, I don’t even know simple methods to clarify the foliage, nonetheless very-
Ken: Ferny, feathery.
Margaret: Yeah, it’s merely lovely, cutleaf because of it says in its title. And that stays gold as correctly. In order that’s an extra intermediate prime. It’s like a shrub and sort of eccentric in sort and suckers correct proper right here and there, nonetheless you may administration that.
Ken: We didn’t say that fairly a couple of factors that begin out gold and even maintain gold until the start of August, go inexperienced. In order that’s one issue to attempt to focus to.
Margaret: Right. And so the purple twig dogwood ‘Sunshine,’ Cornus sericea ‘Sunshine’ [above] stays gold till it drops its leaves all through the autumn. You already know what I point out? It’s gold, gold, gold. And this cutleaf staghorn sumac ‘Tiger Eyes’ stays gold. And I actually really feel what you merely talked about stays gold, sure. And that’s what-
Ken: Robinia, appropriate?
Margaret: Yeah. And I actually really feel your Korean hybrid dogwood does, too. It’s variegated gold and inexperienced.
Ken: It modifications, nonetheless it does maintain a gold sturdy to it. All through the spring, it’s barely bit brighter and extra outlined, nonetheless it’s nonetheless gold. And that’s humorous on account of all through the night time time, merely prior to sundown, the sunshine spherical the entire yard is sort of yellow, or possibly it’s purple, nonetheless every issue seems yellow and this plant seems… you may’t take your eyes off it.
Margaret: Right. In order that’s one totally different diploma about these crops with these bright-colored leaves is the place we place them all through the mild behind them, or at fully completely totally different circumstances of day can actually intensify it.
Amongst shrub-sized, nonetheless not shrubby crops, on account of it’s an infinite herbaceous perennial. I like that gold Japanese, the spikenard, the Aralia cordata ‘Photograph voltaic King,’ which may get to be this huge… it dies to the underside, nonetheless it might get to be this huge perennial. Positively 5 toes excessive and all by way of or one issue, or 4 toes excessive and 5 toes all by way of. It’s this huge, huge, huge challenge, ‘Photograph voltaic King.’ And that will function a seasonal web site company director [laughter]. You’d wish to stroll in route of that plant, appropriate? You’d be attracted from a distance in route of a plant of that substance and colour. [Above, a young plant at Margaret’s.]
Ken: Often the gold or variegated factors are wimpy variations of the mum or dad plant, the species. And typically they’re not. However as you’re saying that, I’m pondering of a few of my favorites. It’s potential chances are you’ll know Symphytum x uplandicum ‘Axminster Gold.’ [Below at Ken’s.]
Margaret: Now translate that into English for us. I don’t know that.
Ken: Comfrey. It’s a comfrey and it’s actually huge, and I noticed it at Wave Hill, oh, various years before now, and as well as you couldn’t get it wherever. Now you may, now you see it. Most definitely from tissue customized, on account of it’s a humorous challenge about propagating, which is true with fairly a couple of crops, like even snake crops, you may’t make root cuttings on account of it loses the variegation. And that plant loses its variegation, nonetheless now it’s throughout the market, which is nice. And I’ve had the variegated horseradish for a couple of years.
Margaret: And that’s a white and inexperienced variegation.
Ken: White and inexperienced and it’s fully completely totally different yearly, I actually really feel by the temperature all through the spring, really.
Margaret: So the sample is totally completely totally different, the mosaic on it, type of the-
Ken: Correctly, it’s splashes of white.
Margaret: I see.
Ken: And typically a leaf is type of completely white, and it’s white, white. It’s actually bleach white, lovely.
Margaret: Plus you are going to get some horseradish [laughter].
Ken: No, you may’t on account of you then’re going to lose the plant.
Margaret: Correctly, I do know, I’m teasing.
Ken: You’re most likely appropriate, you’ll get some.
Margaret: Only a bit piece.
Ken: Right. And I’ve fairly a couple of redbuds, weeping redbuds, that’s Cercis canadensis. I’ve one, and I actually really feel there’s a couple of throughout the market, nonetheless we’ve talked about it prior to, ‘Silver Cloud,’ and that’s what it’s like. It’s like a cloud. On account of it’s not nice blaring-in-your-eye variegation. It’s delicate. And different folks leaves are frequently transferring. And that’s solely a lightweight challenge. I really reduce some factors between the porch and that tree to make that the very best of the view. And it’s an similar to a cloud has landed all through the yard.
You’re speaking about Glenn and Charles, and we normally have company as soon as we have our Digital Yard Membership webinars, and I actually really feel design company, that is vulnerable to be some folks to usher in for the webinar.
Margaret: Sure. They positive know lots. What about, as I talked about earlier, they impressed me not merely to place that big stoplight on the top of the view shed on axis all through the gap, nonetheless to assist costume it up alongside one of many easiest methods correct proper right here and there to tease your eye in that route. And so what about some type of groundcover-y or smaller perennials or what completely totally different factors? You talked regarding the Heuchera, for instance. Let’s concentrate on a couple of completely totally different ones and whether or not or not or not it’s variegated or whether or not or not or not they’re gold, like one different factors. I exploit fairly a couple of Hakonechloa macra ‘All Gold, ‘the Japanese forest grass.
Ken: Yeah, it’s lovely.
Margaret: And kind of asserting the perfect of the trail as you stroll as lots as the home correct proper right here, it’s like there’s clumps on both sides as you get in route of the perfect [top of page, in fall]. So it type of says, “come correct proper right here.”
Ken: I’ve various, I assume they’re raspberries or blackberries, they don’t even have fruit, nonetheless Rubus cockburnianus ‘Golden Veil,’ that’s one which, it doesn’t change colour. That’s yellow-gold all through the spring, yellow-gold all through the autumn. And there’s a fast sort of flooring cowl when Rubus idaeus ‘Aureus,’ which is certainly groundcover-y, the stems are about 12 inches excessive. And it’s a groundcover. [A gold Rubus cockburnianus, above.]
Margaret: Yeah. And the one challenge concerning the Rubus is that we must always on a regular basis say, merely as a disclaimer, is that in case you’re in an home the place they fruit and set seed, they’re additional invasive, not merely spreading sideways. So it’s a must to look these up; there’s sure areas that they’re not good to develop. Yeah, correct proper right here they don’t reproduce. Yeah. No, I’ve them, too, nonetheless they don’t reproduce correct proper right here.
Ken: Oh, yeah?
Margaret: Yeah. Don’t you must have Acorus possibly? Some Acorus?
Ken: Sure. Acorus and There’s numerous Carex, too. There’s numerous Carex. They’re grassy-looking crops that aren’t actually grasses. However Acorus is a plant that likes a moist state of affairs. And there’s fairly a couple of variegated ones which can be gold and inexperienced and little strappy leaves. And one which I like that if you’ll uncover, it’s Acorus ‘Licorice,’ and in case you snap a leaf or tear it, a blade, it smells an similar to licorice. And it’s about, I don’t know, six or seven inches tall. In order that’s one totally different good groundcover.
Margaret: So we title it candy flag, Acorus, is that what we title various of these [like Acorus gramineus, above]?
Ken: Yeah, I assume so, appropriate. You already know me, I merely don’t know the frequent title.
Margaret: Yeah, no, I do know, I attempt to consider them.
Ken: Such a snob.
Margaret: No, nonetheless I attempt to consider them.
Ken: We didn’t say hostas.
Margaret: Correctly, and true. So there we go. That’s another-
Ken: A great deal of hosta.
Margaret: Right, numerous hostas can do that job, too. However the thought-about serving to change folks through the yard, serving to to create areas, serving to a pathway actually catch your consideration some additional.
And typically merely making an unbelievable huge assertion. Like, I’ve this one lengthy island tree. I’ve numerous them, nonetheless one which’s actually huge. It’s like 150 years outdated, and it’s simply so huge, it’s I don’t know, 20 toes tall and 35 or so toes all by way of. And form of beneath it, I put this actually huge, we talked about it prior to, the Aralia, the gold Aralia, regardless of that’s often called. And this huge herbaceous perennial on account of it’s merely this huge mound, and it’s sufficiently giant and daring sufficient to stent to swimsuit with that big, lovely mound of a tree. And have you ever ever learnt what I point out? Often you don’t need one issue little, normally you need one issue huge.
Ken: How a lot shade is beneath the apple tree?
Margaret: Pretty a bit. Yeah.
Ken: In order that’s a plant rising in some shade.
Margaret: Oh, I practically frequently develop that plant partially shade. Yeah, and it does good, nonetheless correct proper right here all through the north, it could take… I’ve it in half picture voltaic. I don’t examine full picture voltaic. I don’t know what it might do in full picture voltaic. I’m undecided.
Ken: There’s that Hydrangea quercifolia, I actually really feel it’s often called ‘Little Honey.’ I don’t know in case you’ve seen that?
Margaret: Oh, sure.
Ken: Attractive. However for me, it wimps alongside and it has some black spots on the leaf. I don’t know what to do about that. On account of my completely totally different oak leaf hydrangeas are unbelievable and the size of Volkswagens. And this challenge I’ve had for years. Marsha Donahue in Berkeley, California, I gave her one and it’s merely lovely in that good native local weather. However mine will not be joyful. And I’ve tried it in two areas. Not ineffective, nonetheless not joyful.
Margaret: Not zaftig.
Ken: Have you ever ever ever ever grown that?
Margaret: No. I don’t have ‘Little Honey,’ I merely have two plain green-leaved ones. Consideration-grabbing. We didn’t stage out Spiraea ‘Ogon,’ which is-
Ken: Oh, there’s so many. Yeah.
Margaret: That’s a gold-leaf Spiraea [above, used to flank a path; photo by Ken]. And for me, even correct proper right here in zone 5, that has early white flowers, nonetheless as shortly as a result of it leaves out, it stays gold. It sort of turns to a butterscotch colour, the foliage in late October and November. And I’ve footage that I’ve taken the place the winterberry hollies are hanging on naked twigs. So we’re speaking about November and former, and that challenge hasn’t dropped its leaves nevertheless. In order that’s a wonderful one for a long-lasting little little little bit of gold all through the yard.
Ken: There’s fairly a couple of in sort Spiraea japonica. Correctly, all of them have type of pink flowers, and a few of them don’t look so good, so it’s a must to make sure that to get a pleasant one. You already know what I’m speaking about, ‘Gold Mound’ and stuff? And a few of them merely, it’s an excessive amount of, too wise, but-
Margaret: Yeah, various of them are too screaming. Yeah.
Ken: I actually really feel mine’s often called ‘Gold Rug’ or one issue like that. And I don’t know why it’s a horrible title, nonetheless I actually really feel that’s what it’s. It stays quick and the pink isn’t screaming, and the flowers in any case don’t final perpetually, nonetheless the foliage is nice. I choose the the yellowish finish for these crops on account of the inexperienced sort of goes, I don’t know, not practically nearly as good because of the gold.
Margaret: Inform me any others that you just simply merely need to shout out. One thing that we haven’t… I’ve various Aralia which can be sort of like large shrub/small bushes. They’re grafted Aralia elata, ‘Silver Umbrella’ [above] and ‘Aureovariegata’ that I like. And usually the rootstock will sucker, nonetheless it’s simple to dig out so that they don’t go wherever they usually additionally don’t self-sow
Ken: You be mindful Eleutherococcus that was as quickly as often called Aralia, I actually really feel?
Margaret: Yeah. As soon as extra all through the day.
Ken: There’s a variegated model of that, that it has thorns and it’s variegated white and inexperienced, and it’s an okay plant to positioned on the sting of 1 issue that you just simply merely don’t ought to stroll through on account of it’s all thorny [laughter]. However concentrate on lighting an home, it actually does. It lights an home.
Margaret: I used to have a variegated flower, a variegated lilac flower, ‘Sensation.’ Do not forget that? With the white and purple flowers [laughter]?
Ken: Did you get that to bloom?
Margaret: Yeah, it did for years. After which lastly, I don’t know what occurred to it, but-
Ken: I don’t every.
Margaret: Talking of variegation, nonetheless yeah, there’s numerous potentialities. However what we’re principally saying, merely in type of wrapping it up, is we’ll’t assist nonetheless buy factors [laughter], nonetheless we would like them to serve a function, too. And so I actually really feel although normally, akin to you mentioned, Ken, we don’t know after we first purchased them—and possibly they find yourself all through the cloud mattress—we don’t know after we first purchased them what their function was. They present us, they present us the sunshine. They actually do, these golden and variegated crops. Yeah.
Ken: That’s true. And I actually really feel that listeners ought to forgive themselves.
Margaret: For the occasional obsession, I’ll say it as quickly as further [laughter].
Ken: Right, obsession.
Margaret: Correctly, thanks, thanks, thanks for making time correct this second. Now exit and pull some weeds. I’ve obtained to do the an similar.
Ken: Oh my gosh.
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MY WEEKLY public-radio present, rated a “top-5 yard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper all through the UK, started its 14th 12 months in March 2023. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station all through the nation. Hear regionally all through the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Japanese, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the Sept. 4, 2023 present utilizing the participant close to the perfect of this transcript. You’ll be able to subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify or Stitcher (and browse my archive of podcasts correct proper right here).